這位拍過 ID4 風靡全球但拍 ID4 2 又被批評向中國靠攏的導演，明天他新片就要上映了。他身為個大製作商業片導演，這幾天也被問到了關於超英電影的問題，他也沒有避談而也餵了很多新聞給媒體。不過我今天才看到一篇上個月的 Collider 訪談，裡面從他童年談起、談到電影生涯、談到每個階段的大片歷程、談到他的政治生態平權等理想與電影實踐、繼續談到今年這部《決戰中途島》... 也很有趣的是他在訪談中彷彿耿耿於懷地提到了幾次 "superhero"這回事。以下翻譯一下，還請大家瞧瞧：
新聞網址：https://collider.com/roland-emmerich-interview-midway-career/
新聞標題：
Roland Emmerich Talks 'Midway', His Lowkey Politics & Being Known as the "Master of Disaster"
羅蘭艾莫瑞奇談《決戰中途島》、談他低調的政治傾向、談他「災難大師」的名聲
by Helen Barlow, Octorber 9, 2019
German-born filmmaker Roland Emmerich is sometimes referred to as “the master of disaster,” after directing a string of blockbuster disaster films like Independence Day, Godzilla, and The Day After Tomorrow, a global warming horror film released in 2004. The affable 63-year-old received a career tribute at The Zurich Film Festival, where The Day After Tomorrow was screened alongside several new films with a strong environmental message, including the Antarctic documentary Sanctuary, featuring Javier
Bardem, and Watson, a film about eco-warrior Paul Watson directed by An Inconvenient Truth producer Lesley Chilcott.
德國導演羅蘭艾莫瑞奇常被稱為「災難大師」，在他拍過《ID4 星際終結者》《酷斯拉》與 2004 全球暖化片《明天過後》等災難大片後。這位 63 歲親切大叔的電影生涯剛得到蘇黎世電影節的小致敬：他們將《明天過後》與許多環境議題新片一起放映，包括哈維爾巴登參與的南極紀錄片 "Sanctuary"，以及關於生態戰士 Paul Watson 的 "Watson"，由《不願面對的真相》製作人 Lesley Chilcott 執導。
Meanwhile, Emmerich’s new film, the World War II action-drama Midway, releases in November. It’s a familiar offer from Emmerich, featuring big-budget effects and an ensemble cast including Ed Skrein, Patrick Wilson, Luke Evans, Aaron Eckhart, and Nick Jonas. The film, about the American sailors and aviators who helped bring about the turning point in the war at the Battle of Midway, looks set to be a success story in the vein of The Patriot, Emmerich’s highly-praised 2000 Civil War drama starring Mel
Gibson. Midway is mostly being kept under wraps, but Emmerich was happy to discuss how long it had been in the works. He also didn’t hold back on his battles with Hollywood and the serendipity that made his blockbusters a success.
同時，艾莫瑞奇的二戰新片《決戰中途島》十一月要上映了。這片是很尋常的艾莫瑞奇片，有大預算特效，還有一群明星卡司包括 Ed Skrein, Patrick Wilson, Luke Evans, Aaron Eckhart 與 Nick Jonas 。關於一群在在「中途島海戰」幫助二戰局勢扭轉乾坤的美國水手和飛行員，此片有 2000 艾莫瑞奇與梅爾吉勃遜合作的美國內戰片《決戰時刻》那種眾志成城故事的況味。《決戰中途島》電影內容尚不透露，但艾莫瑞奇樂於談談拍這片如何一路走來。他也不吝談談他與好萊塢的爭戰，以及什麼機緣巧合使他這部大片成功拍完。
An openly gay supporter of LGBTQ rights, Emmerich directed the 2015 movie Stonewall, about the 1969 Stonewall riots and the gay liberation movement. The drama showcases Emmerich’s for making smaller independent films as well as popcorn-fuelled blockbusters.
身為一個大聲支持 LGBTQ平權的出櫃同志，艾莫瑞奇 2015 年也執導了關於 1969 年石牆暴動的《石牆風暴》，此片也讓大家看見拍爆米花大片外艾莫瑞奇也是會拍小成本獨立片。
COLLIDER: Your father was a successful businessman making garden machinery in a small town outside of Stuttgart.
COLLIDER：你爸是個成功商人，在司徒特加近郊小鎮製造園藝機械？
ROLAND EMMERICH: Early on I decided not to enter the family business and luckily I had two older brothers who were inclined to take over the company. So I got out of there really fast together with my sister.
羅蘭艾莫瑞奇：我很早就決定不參加家族事業，很幸運地我的兩個哥哥都傾向加入家族公司。於是我和我妹很快就順利離家了。
You were more artistically inclined.
你比較傾向藝術？
EMMERICH: I was always interested in painting, architecture and literature. When other kids were playing outside I was always reading a book. My mum would say to go out and get some fresh air and I’d say, “No, not today, maybe tomorrow”.
艾莫瑞奇：我一直對繪畫、建築、雕塑有興趣。當其他孩子在外面玩時我總是在看書，我媽總叫我一起出去呼吸新鮮空氣，我總是說「今天不要，明天罷」。
You were accepted to the Munich film school and initially wanted to be a production designer. Then you saw a movie that made you change your idea of what you could do with your life.
你進入慕尼黑電影學校、起初想當個製作設計師，然後看了某部電影後改變了志向？
EMMERICH: I’d already been accepted to film school when I visited a friend studying fashion in Paris, and I was walking along the Champs Elysees and I saw a billboard for Close Encounters of the Third Kind. I watched the English version and from that moment something changed in me. I wasn’t immediately saying I wanted to direct, but I wanted to be involved in movies like that. I was afraid of becoming a director because I had no idea how to do that, but I knew a little about the visual side.
艾莫瑞奇：我在錄取後有去巴黎拜訪一位學時尚的朋友，我走在香榭麗舍大道上抬頭看到了《第三類接觸》的看板，我看了該片英語版後心理某個點被打開了。我並沒馬上說「我想導演」，我只覺得我想參與像這樣的電影。當時我對當導演還怕怕的，因為我不知導演該怎麼做，但我對視覺方面還算略懂。
What was it about the film?
這部片在談什麼？
EMMERICH: It was about very ordinary people. One is an electrician, one is a mother with a child and they are faced with something incredible, aliens coming to earth. This electrician ends up being one of the guys who goes up there with them.
艾莫瑞奇：他關於一群很普通的人們，包括一位電子技工、以及一個帶孩子的媽媽，他們遇上了難以置信的事情：外星人降臨地球！那位技工甚至跟著其他人們被外星人帶了上去。
A lot of your movies can be seen in a kind of Spielberg-ian style.
你很多片都可以看作是帶著某種「史匹柏風格」？
EMMERICH: Exactly. Pretty much my movies are about normal people facing incredible circumstances.
艾莫瑞奇：確實如此。我很大部分的電影都關於普通人們面對不可思議的情境。
Your first film in film school was The Noah’s Ark Principle, which was crazily ambitious and shows how far you can go with virtually nothing.
你在電影學校第一片是《諾亞方舟原則》Das Arche Noah Prinzip，瘋狂地雄心壯志，展現了你在一無所有下可以玩多大？
EMMERICH: I don’t want to watch it anymore! (Chuckles) I was with a group of students but they wanted to do something smaller and dropped out. I really only wanted to do the production design and I ended up being the director. In the beginning, the budget was 500,000 Deutsch Marks and we ended up spending 900,000 Marks and nearly bankrupted the film school. My father, who was better at business, enabled the film school to give us more funding, and he gave us 70,000 Marks for visual effects.
艾莫瑞奇：喔這不堪回首（聳肩）！我本來和一群同學合製，但他們想做小一點的片而退出了。其實我只是想做製作設計，結果最後我變成了導演。最初電影預算是五十萬德國馬克，最後我們花了九十萬、幾乎把電影學校拖到破產。我那比我們都懂商業的老爸，促成學校贊助我們更多，也自掏腰包給我七萬馬克做視覺特效。
You started your company Centropolis with your sister Uta and made English-language films in Germany, Joey (Making Contact), Hollywood Monster (Ghost Chase) and Moon 44. How were they received?
你和你妹Ute 創了電影公司 Centropolis，在德國製作了（譯者暫譯）《喬伊的接觸》、《好萊塢怪獸》、《44號月球》等片，迴響如何呢？
EMMERICH: The Noah’s Ark Principle was very well received, then the others not so much. People couldn’t understand someone making movies that look like American movies in Germany and the critics started trashing me more and more. Mario Kassar at Carolco wanted me to take over the reins of a Stallone movie budgeted at $65 million, so I went home to Stuttgart and said to my sister, “Pack up the office, we’re going to Hollywood.” They had lost Ridley Scott on the movie and he was one of my big heroes,
so that was great for me.
艾莫瑞奇：《諾亞方舟原則》很受歡迎，其他則平平。人們不懂怎麼會有人在德國做些像美國一樣的片，影評也加碼砲轟。Carolco 製片公司的 Mario Kassar 那時想要我去接手一部六千五百萬美元的史特龍片，我趕快回家告訴我妹「把公司打包、咱們要去好萊塢！」他們失去我心中的電影英雄雷利史考特、而要我接手？對我來說這太棒了。
Yet your first film was Universal Soldier and not the Stallone movie.
不過你第一部好萊塢片是《魔鬼命令》而不是那部史特龍片。
EMMERICH: It’s one of these typical stories about being a newcomer in Hollywood. I went to Cannes where James Cameron was there with T2 and everyone was asking, “Who is this Emmerich guy?” Joel Silver was the producer and I just didn’t get along with him. He always wanted to tell me how to make a movie, and I said I know how to make movies. I was good friends with a young actor from Moon 44, Dean Devlin, and asked him, “Can we write a script for this movie?” We gave it to Carolco and they said it
was so much better than they had. But Joel Silver refused to even read it and I knew I had to call it quits. I said to Mario, “This will cost $80 million and not be a good movie.” He was so impressed that he gave me a smaller movie.
艾莫瑞奇：那又是個典型的好萊塢新人故事。當時我去了坎城，那正上映詹姆斯柯麥隆的《魔鬼終結者 2》，而大家只在問「那個艾莫瑞奇又是誰？」我那片製片是 Joel Silver而我就是和他不太處得來，他總是想教我如何拍部片、但我總說我知道怎麼拍部片。我和《44號月球》的年輕演員 Dean Devlin是好友，於是我問他「我們能給這片寫個劇本嗎？」我們寫了交給 Carolco而他們覺得這比他們手上的好多了，但 Joel Silver連讀都不願讀，我就知道該退出了。我告訴 Mario「這片會花八千萬卻不會是部好片」，他印象深刻，於是給了我另一部較小的片。
That movie, Universal Soldier, ended up a success.
而這部小片《魔鬼命令》最終大成功。
EMMERICH: Another director had to quit, as they couldn’t make it for $35 million and Mario asked me if I could do it for $20 million and I said we’d have to write a new screenplay. I always have to invent stories myself, at least the initial idea. The only time I signed on to an existing screenplay was The Patriot. Mario was cool and said it’s about genetically-enhanced soldiers and it stars Jean-Claude Van Damme and Dolph Lundgren. I asked immediately, “Who is Jean-Claude Van Damme?” I rented all
his videos and I went, “Ooh” and my co-writer Dean Devlin said, “You cannot work with these people”. And I said I have a great idea – we kill them at the beginning and when they wake up they are automatically-controlled people. (Laughs)
艾莫瑞奇：另外一個導演得退出，因為他們無法拍用三千五百萬拍，Mario 就問我能不能用兩千萬拍，我回答那我們得寫個新劇本。我總要自己創造故事，至少要創作原初構想。我唯一一次給一部現成劇本電影當導演的片是《決戰時刻》。Mario 同意了，告訴我這是部關於基因強化士兵的故事、要有尚克勞德范達美與杜夫朗格。於是我立刻問「誰是范達美」然後把范達美片全租回家看了，我驚呼「喔」而編劇搭擋 Dean Devlin只緩緩道「你沒辦法跟這些人工作的」。然後我想到了個好點子：我們開場就殺了他們、然後讓他們一醒來就成為自動控制人（笑）。
You were playing to their acting style essentially.
你已經在玩他們的演技了。
EMMERICH: Exactly!
艾莫瑞奇：正是如此 XD
Then you started to make original movies like Stargate.
然後你開始拍原創電影如《星際奇兵》。
EMMERICH: I already had the idea for Stargate in film school.
艾莫瑞奇：早在電影學校時我就有《星際奇兵》的構想了。
Was it difficult to pitch and get accepted?
拿這片去提案等人接受，過程困難嗎？
EMMERICH: It was super hard to do. I went to every studio and the only person who said he could develop it was Lorenzo di Bonaventura at Warners, and he eventually went on to produce Transformers. He was a really nice guy. I said, “I want to make this movie now.” We found a young French producer Mark Friedman who had just started a production company owned by Canal Plus who had a huge stake in Carolco. They said, “How much do you need?” I said $35 million and he said, “Let’s do it.” The movie was
made without American distribution and when we’d finished it and it had great visuals Mario screened a reel to everybody. I later learned he wanted to make an overall deal with MGM, so they got it, and at the time having your film at MGM was pretty much the death knell of your career. But we knew how to market it. Dean was very computer savvy. He created the first web page ever for a movie and that reached so many people. MGM marketed the movie for young boys, and in the end, 75% of our audience was
over 25. But it was very successful and was called a sleeper hit. It was the biggest October opening for 10 years or so, and that naturally brought a lot of interest.
艾莫瑞奇：超困難。我跑了每家製片廠，唯一說能發展此片的是華納的Lorenzo di Bonaventura，而最後他還跑去製作《變形金剛》了。他是個好人，我要求「我想現在就拍這片」，我們就找了個法國的年輕製片 Mark Friedman，他才在 Canal+ 底下開了間製片公司，而 Canal+ 又在 Carolco有很多股權。他們問「你要多少預算」，我答三千五百萬他就答應「那我們幹吧」。這片製作沒有美國發行商支持，我們得先完成它而它真有很棒的視效，Mario 拍了一小段給每家發行商看看。
後來我才知道他當時想全權交給米高梅，米高梅就得到了本片發行權，而在那年頭讓米高梅發行等於是你事業的喪鐘。但我們自己知道如何行銷這片，Dean很懂電腦，他寫了個前所未見的電影網頁而許多人真的都看到了。米高梅把此片行銷給年輕男孩，結果 25 歲以上觀眾佔 75%。結果這片很成功、成為當年大黑馬，他保持 10 月檔最佳首映票房紀錄有差不多十年吧，這自然令大家對我們開始感興趣。
Afterward, you made the film that launched your career – Independence Day, which you also wrote and produced. You got it going quickly and it became the template for how you would make movies.
接下來，你拍了你導演生涯代表作《ID4 星際終結者》，你還兼任編劇與製片。你很快就完成了它放送全球，而它也成為你未來會如何拍電影的參考模板？
EMMERICH: After Stargate I went to a new agent who had all the big writers like Shane Black and Joe Eszterhas. I always wanted to make big alien invasion movies but I first had to convince Dean and finally did. Then I learned from Lorenzo there was another movie called Mars Attacks! with Tim Burton, one of my favorite directors. I knew a bit about Mars Attacks! and every one said to give up. I said, “No let’s go to Mexico and lock ourselves in a room” and in three and a half weeks we wrote
Independence Day. My agent asked if I could put a number to it and we auctioned it like we auctioned my scripts, which had never been done before. We came in with a budget of $73 million and they offered $69.8 million. Then we went to the whole town wondering how we could release before Mars Attacks! which was scheduled for August. I said, “Let’s call it Independence Day, let’s have it take place on Independence Day and insist on the 4th July weekend”. That was our condition and every studio wanted
to make it and it ended up at Fox. Tim Burton was already shooting and we wrote, shot and finished it in 10 to 11 months.
艾莫瑞奇：在《星際奇兵》後我找了間新的經紀公司，他們有 Shane Black 和 Joe Eszterhas 等大牌編劇。我一直都很想拍部外星人入侵電影，但我得先說服 Dean 而我也終於說服了。然後我從 Lorenzo那聽說同年還有另一部《星戰毀滅者》來競爭，還由我最喜愛的導演之一提姆波頓執導。我對該片略知一二，大家都叫我放棄吧，我只說「不，咱們去墨西哥閉關一陣子」然後花三週半寫完《ID4 星際終結者》劇本。經紀人問我能不能如同兜售我以前的劇本般兜售它（其實我也沒兜售過我劇本）？我們提出七千三百萬美元、對方提出六千九百八十萬成交。
然後我們跑遍全城想著該怎麼趕在八月上映的《星戰毀滅者》之前先上映，我靈機一動「我們叫它《獨立日》吧，我們讓這劇情發生在獨立紀念日、並堅持要排 7/4那週末檔期上映。」那是我們的條件，每家片廠都買單，結果福斯拿到了。那時提姆波頓早已開拍了，而我們趕在 10 到 11 個月之間火速完成了編劇、拍攝與後製。
The film became the fastest to reach $100 million in the US. It was a monster success globally. How did that change your life?
此片成為美國影史票房最快破億的片，更得到全球超大成功。它如何改變你人生？
EMMERICH: I naturally got the biggest movie that everyone wanted to do which was Godzilla. I didn’t want to do it, but because I didn’t want to do it they went higher and higher with the salary and the backend got bigger and bigger. But I said I would not make Godzilla look like Godzilla. We made him look like a lizard and went with [an image of] this thing to Tokyo where the same company had Independence Day, which had been a sensation and they felt compelled to make my next movie. But when we
revealed it to them they said you make your American Godzilla and we’ll make our own Godzilla. I said, “Fine with me”. But I was a bit disappointed because I thought, “Shit, now I have to do this thing!”
艾莫瑞奇：我理所當然地拿到了當時人人搶著要的最大片《酷斯拉》。其實我不想拍它，但正因我不想拍，他們不停加碼片酬與預算就是要我拍。可是我說我不會把《酷斯拉》拍得像個哥吉拉。我們把它拍得像隻蜥蜴，帶了一段樣本去東京找當地發行《ID4 星際終結者》的片商，ID4 在日本大轟動因此他們躍躍欲試地拍我下一片。但當我們拿出樣本時，他們只說你們拍你們的美國《酷斯拉》吧、我們拍我們的哥吉拉就好。我嘴上說「那好吧」但其實很失望，因為我想「糟糕了，這下我得自己做這片。」
Do you have any regrets about making Godzilla?
你對拍《酷斯拉》有任何後悔嗎？
EMMERICH: A little bit. It did all right commercially, but I’ve always said monster films have a limit. Later Peter Jackson did King Kong and it roughly did the same money as Godzilla. Everyone said it would make the same money as Independence Day and I said, “No, it will make half the money” and that’s exactly what it did. Who would go to a Japanese monster movie? It’s a certain kind of audience and that was that.
艾莫瑞奇：有那麼點。商業上它都很OK，但我一直說怪獸電影是有其限制的。後來彼得傑克森拍了《金剛》，也賣到和《酷斯拉》差不多票房。大家都說我這片能賣到《ID4 星際終結者》那麼多，但我說「不，只會賣到 ID4一半」結果還真只賣到一半。誰會想看一部日本怪獸電影？那是一群特定的觀眾，也許也不少但就這樣了。
Afterward, you made The Patriot, a very different American story.
接下來，你拍了《決戰時刻》，是個非常不同的美國故事。
EMMERICH: I wanted to do Midway and at that time John Caillie had just been made chairman at Sony and he made this huge deal with Dean and me. I pitched Midway as this amazing story, “It’s perfect everything is there.” He said, “Oh my God, a great idea. Who do you want to write it?” I said William Goldman. He said, “I know him, I can call him.” He was at that time the biggest screenwriter in Hollywood, even if he lived in New York, and I ended sitting with Dean in his living room and told him that
he also wrote A Bridge Too Far and he immediately said, “Great, let’s do it.” Then I had bad news from John Caillie. “Can you make this movie for under $100 million?” I said, “No, its $120 or $130 million because of the visual effects. Nobody’s ever done something like that.” So he couldn’t greenlight the film for more than $90 million. I was super depressed, then Chris Lee, a friend running Tristar, said, “Don’t worry, I just got a great script in turnaround by the same guy who wrote Saving
Private Ryan (Robert Rodat) and that was The Patriot.
艾莫瑞奇：我那時就想拍《決戰中途島》了，但那時 John Caillie 剛執掌 Sony 而他跟我們簽下了這個大片約。我為這片約提案了《決戰中途島》，他說「很完美地我們一切到位，天哪一個超棒的想法，你想要誰來編劇？」我說 William Goldman，他說「我認識他、就打給他」。這位是當時好萊塢最大牌的編劇，雖然他住在紐約，我和 Dean 就去他紐約客廳，還提及他編過《奪橋遺恨》，他馬上答應「好極了，咱們來做！」
可是接下來 John Caillie 傳來壞消息「你們能壓到低於一億嗎？」我說「不行，必須1.2或1.3億，為了那視覺特效，沒人幹過這樣的。」但他無法放行此片超過九千萬。我那時超沮喪，然後當時在三星的好友 Chris Lee告訴我「別灰心，我手上正在傳著《搶救雷恩大兵》那位編劇 Robert Rodat 的新作品」，也就是《決戰時刻》。
Were you worried about making a historical American story as a German?
身為德國人，你對拍一部美國歷史片會感到不安嗎？
EMMERICH: It was a fantastic script. When I signed on I was made to believe it was about Francis Marion so I read every book about him. In the script he had seven children, but in real life, he had one child. Then I realized it wouldn’t be about him and would be a composite figure because there were four or five guys who became these famous rebels–as opposed to the army–and they called themselves patriots.
艾莫瑞奇：那是很棒的劇本。當我簽約時他們讓我覺得這是關於 Francis Marion 的電影，於是我把關於他的每本書都讀了。不過劇本裡他有七個孩子、史實中他卻只有一個。於是我了解這並不是關於他個人的片，這主角是多個不同歷史人物的集成，在那故事中有四到五個史實人物成為了著名的叛亂者，嗯只是對英軍來說的叛亂者啦，他們稱自己為愛國者。
You’ve always been a political person personally, but it’s not something that showed up in your movies. But after that, you did The Day After Tomorrow, a film with a strong environmental message that was very unique at the time.
你私下一直是個熱衷政治的人，但這並不顯現在你此前電影中。不過後來，你拍了《明天過後》，是一部環境訊息強烈的電影，在那時相當特別。
EMMERICH: I had to kind of trick Hollywood to make this movie, because I said to myself and said to them what I said to my friends and my sister when they asked me what I was doing next, and I said a film about global warming. They said, “What?” I wanted to do something about climate change and I came across a book called The Coming of the Global Superstorm written by Whitley Strieber and Art Bell who had this crazy radio show, and Strieber wrote Communion where he thinks he got abducted by aliens. I
recently acquired another of his books and he told me he has a brain implant. He’s that kind of guy. So it was a great idea where one superstorm brings on a new Ice Age. When you think about global warming, anything can happen with climate change. You might radically tell it, but the underlying science was totally real. So I acquired the rights and changed the title and wrote it a bit in the style of Independence Day. Everyone wanted a new Independence Day. It was called The Day After Tomorrow and they
weren’t so happy about the title, but there was this feeding frenzy going on and I could make the film.
艾莫瑞奇：我有點像是騙了好萊塢幫我拍這片，因為我把我朋友和我妹問我下部想拍什麼時的答案告訴了他們：「我想拍部全球暖化片」，他們只打「什麼？」我一直想為氣候變遷做點事，而我讀到了 Whitley Strieber and Art Bell 著作的《即將到來的全球超級風暴》，他們有個瘋狂的廣播秀、Strieber 還寫了 "Communion" 這本書描述他認為自己被外星人綁架的經驗，最近我還拿到了他的新著作、而他告訴我他腦裡有外星人晶片，他就是這樣的傢伙。
一個超級暴風帶來了新的冰河期，這是很棒的概念。當你想到全球暖化時，任何事都可以隨著氣候變遷而發生。你也許可以很誇張地講這故事，但它底下的科學可是貨真價實。所以我取得了此書改編權、改了它標題、並以一種 ID4風格來編寫劇本。大家都想要下一部《ID4 星際終結者》（獨立紀念日），但我這片叫做《明天過後》（後天），他們都不太喜歡這片名，但那時一股狂熱流竄著，於是我能拍這片。
You campaigned for Hilary Clinton, you are a big supporter of LGBTQ rights, and gave a large donation to Outfest for their Legacy Project for the preservation of gay and lesbian films. Why did you want to make that contribution to preserve those films?
你替希拉蕊柯林頓助選，你是 LGBTQ平權支持者，也贊助了一大筆給 Outfest加州同志電影節，支持他們保存男同與女同電影的 Legacy Project。你為何會想在電影保存上做點貢獻呢？
EMMERICH: I really believe that movies have to say something. It doesn’t matter what it is. Even with successful movies like Independence Day, everyone knows what it means to be invaded when things come and destroy your life, and it’s about your fight for freedom. I think that’s a universal theme. I became very concerned about the environment and I had the feeling I had to do something about it and came up with that. Then you have to be smart in the way you do it. I was recently asked by a journalist
why I think there are no environmental movies anymore and I said, “Well, there aren’t any original movies anymore, but if you invent like a superhero who fights climate change, maybe then you can do it.”
艾莫瑞奇：我認真相信電影必須說點事情，說什麼都好。就算是看了商業成功的《ID4 星際終結者》這種片，人們也會知道當你被侵略生活被毀滅的感覺，而這關於為自由而戰。我認為這是個普世的題材。我漸漸對環境愈發憂心而覺得我必須做點事，才有了這些想法，然後你必須聰明地實踐它。最近有個記者問我，為什麼我覺得現在都沒環境電影了？我說「這樣說吧，現在連原創電影都沒了，但你若創作一部關於超級英雄對抗氣候變遷的片，也許你還能做。」
You’re political but you’re not perceived that way.
你是很政治的，但你並沒被人們這樣看待。
EMMERICH: Yes. They always think I’m Right Wing or something. People love to put people in a box and say that this is what you are. I had three movies that did really well, Independence Day, Godzilla, and The Day After Tomorrow, which were all about destruction and they think you’re the master of disaster. What will you destroy next?
艾莫瑞奇：是地。他們總覺得我是右派這類的。人們喜歡把人放進個小框架去界定他。我拍過《ID4 星際終結者》《酷斯拉》《明天過後》三部大賣的片，三部都關於大毀滅。而他們就覺得你是災難大師、你下部要毀掉什麼？
Midway is about to come out. You didn’t go the typical route of going to a studio and getting them to pay for it. You financed it in the independent market.
《決戰中途島》快上映了，你這次不照老方法找大片廠出資，而是在獨立市場籌資。
EMMERICH: I was forced to do it that way. I went to every studio, and at that stage, the movie had a much bigger budget of $125 million, and they said it’s too expensive. Then our agents and other people said maybe we go to the independent market, maybe to China, and that’s what we did. Roeg Sutherland went out and looked for Chinese money and there was huge interest. We went to Cannes and someone could pay $80 million, but I needed $20 million more. So they said you can keep the US market and it was
stop, go, stop, go, stop, go. I have the feeling that’s the future for directors of my kind because studios aren’t so inclined anymore to risk anything. With movies costing more than $50-60 million, you have to take a risk because you have to pay $35 million for print and advertising on top of your budget. Then they’re looking at every war movie ever made and they realize only three movies made enough money to make their budgets back, so they naturally decided against it. It was tough, but we pulled
through it and we’re very proud of the film.
艾莫瑞奇：我不得不這麼做。我找過每一家大片廠，在此階段此片有高於以往的一億兩千五百萬，而他們都說這太貴了。於是我們的經紀人與其他人都說也許我們該改找獨立製片市場、也許去找中國，我們就這麼做了。Roeg Sutherland 去找中資而有很多人表示興趣。我們去坎城遇到有人能給我們八千萬，可是我還需要再多兩千萬。於是他們說你們可回美國市場找，然後就是一路找一路碰壁。
我有種感覺，這就是我這類導演所面對的未來了，因為大片廠並再也不傾向冒任何的風險。拍一部五六千萬以上的電影，你必須冒點風險，因為你還要在預算上多花三千五百萬宣傳。然後他們看看每部過去拍過的戰爭片，就發現其實只有三部曾經真正回本，所以很自然地他們拒絕了我這部。這很艱辛，但我們撐過來了，我們對這部片感到自豪。
Is that the biggest shift now, going to the independent market to get finance?
轉向獨立市場找資金，這是最大的轉變嗎？
EMMERICH: The most successful film in the last year was Avengers: Endgame, and I heard the Russo brothers wanted to do the original movie for $50/60 million, and they had a tough time getting it financed. It made $2.8 billion. It doesn’t matter for Hollywood how much because they don’t think it’s these guys doing it. It’s Marvel, it’s Kevin Feige, it’s this whole big apparatus who make these films.
艾莫瑞奇：過去這一年最成功的電影是《復仇者聯盟：終局之戰》。我聽說羅素兄弟原來想用五六千萬拍原創電影，但很難找到資金。但復四賣了28億。好萊塢其實不在乎錢，因為他們不認為是這些影人在做電影。這是漫威、這是凱文費吉、是這個巨大機器在做這些電影。
The Day After Tomorrow was the first Hollywood film about carbon emissions based on calculations from a UCLA study. How do you deal with it [carbon emissions] when you make movies?
《明天過後》是第一部關於碳排放的好萊塢片，而且還是基於 UCLA 的研究運算。那你在製作電影時怎麼處理碳排放問題呢？
EMMERICH: To pay for carbon emissions is a good thing, but it won’t change much. I think we all have to become vegetarians, to figure out how not to use oil, there are a lot of things we have to do. When you see how big the problem is, there are solutions. I’m actually really pessimistic. The first time I was a bit optimistic was when kids all over the world led by a 16-year-old girl from Sweden [Greta Thunberg] started going on the streets and she recently spoke in front of the UN. I think the future
generation sees the problem as so big that they want to tell everybody. But politicians don’t really care.
艾莫瑞奇：為碳排付費是好事，但這做不出多少改變。我認為我們都該開始吃素、想想如何能不用汽油，有很多事情我們必須努力。當你看見問題很大時，其實都有解決辦法。事實上我很悲觀，我第一次感到樂觀是聽說全球孩子們響應一個 16 歲瑞典少女（葛瑞塔桑伯格）開始上街頭、而且她還在聯合國演說。我想下個世代很嚴肅地看見大問題、急切想告訴每個人，但政客們並不真關心。
Do you have any tips for young filmmakers?
有什麼給年輕電影人的小建議嗎？
EMMERICH: The industry has changed since I first went to Hollywood. They wanted creativity, now it’s the opposite. I’ve found it was more important the things I said no to as opposed to the things I said yes to. It’s much more important that you know what you want than what other people want you to do.
艾莫瑞奇：從我踏進好萊塢到現在，電影產業已經變了。他們曾經想要創造力，現在則是相反。我發現過去我說 no 的事情，也許比我過去說 yes的事情還要重要。你知道自己想做什麼，比別人想要你做什麼重要多了。
There’s a period now when Hollywood wants prequels and sequels. Why and how will it change?
現在是個好萊塢很想拍續集與前傳的時代。為什麼如此？它會怎麼改變？
EMMERICH: Hollywood is always changing. If you don’t change with it you become a dinosaur. I hope it will change again because I don’t think the quality of movies we are making are as good as maybe in the 70s, 80s, and 90s, even 10 years ago. Every once in a while good movies are made, but now big movies often only work because a hero has some funny dress or can fly. It’s a little depressing but in the end, you have to go with your times. I hope it will change again but I’m not so sure. You can never
predict the future, it would be great, so you just have to concentrate on what you’re doing and hope people out in the world want to see it.
艾莫瑞奇：好萊塢一直都在改變，如果你不跟著他改變你就變老恐龍了。我希望它能再次改變，因為我不認為現在我們做電影的品質有像 70s 80s 90s甚至十年前那樣高。每隔一陣子就會有部好片，但現在大片往往只有靠穿逗趣戲服或會飛天的的英雄才成功。這令人有點沮喪，但最終你必須跟上你的時代。我希望它會再改變但我不太敢肯定。你從無法預測未來，未來也許會很好，所以你但專心做好你在做的事，並希望世上的人們會想看見。
What more can you tell us about Midway?
關於《決戰中途島》你能透露些什麼？
EMMERICH: As I said, I wanted to do Midway for 20 years and I’m super excited about that story. When you analyze it, it’s a simple story and it’s good that I didn’t do it then because people aren’t as sensitive as they are now, because it tells of people holding off fascism and it was exactly seen then like that. When you see how nationalism played against globalism – I’m a globalist, I think everyone should work together and nations are a thing of the past. But now it’s exactly the opposite.
There are demagogues who tell people to be nationalistic and everything will be better, but nationalism created World War II. So I think it’s a good story to tell today.
艾莫瑞奇：如我剛剛說的，我想拍《決戰中途島》已經二十年了，我對它的故事超興奮的。當你分析它，它是個簡單的故事，而我當年沒拍成也好，因為當年人們還沒像現在這麼敏銳，因為這片講個人們對抗法西斯主義的的戰爭、人們當時的人們就真的會如此觀看它。當你看看國族主義怎麼與全球主義對立著 — 我是個全球主義者，我認為所有人都該一起合作，也認為國族應該是個過去式，可惜現況剛好相反。到處都有煽動者在告訴人們當個國族主義者一切都會變更好，但國族主義造成了二次世界大戰呀。所以我想這是個今日值得一談的好故事。
Do you believe in aliens?
你相信有外星人嗎？
EMMERICH: I get asked that question a lot. I have to say I wish there were aliens, because it’s such a great story and you can make so many different stories. I think aliens have taken over from fairies and other fable-like creatures. I also believe that Hollywood isn’t doing a good job these days in educating the world. I think they’re doing exactly the opposite. They’re telling kids that superheroes exist, and they don’t exist. In a disaster movie, normal regular people have to become heroes and
not superheroes.
艾莫瑞奇：我常被問這問題。我必須說我希望有外星人，因為這是個好故事而且你能創造出更多不同故事。我認為外星人在影壇已取代了精靈與寓言故事。我也覺得好萊塢在教育世界上做得並不怎麼好，我認為他們做的恰恰相反。他們告訴孩子們超級英雄存在，而事實上他們並不存在。在一部災難電影中，一般平凡人必須成為英雄，而不是超級英雄。
Which actors have you liked working with?
你喜歡和哪些演員共事的經驗？
EMMERICH: I’ve always liked and really admired Mel Gibson; he was always on the set of The Patriot every day and was the easiest actor I’ve worked with. In Anonymous, which was more an ensemble, I worked with a lot of great actors coming from the theatre like Vanessa Redgrave and Rhys Ifans and it was probably the best time of my life. It was the first time working with people where it wasn’t just about the acting but also about the storytelling and what the scene has to tell you.
艾莫瑞奇：我一直很欣賞梅爾吉勃遜，他每天都參與在《決戰時刻》片場中，而且他是我合作過最好相處的演員。在《莎士比亞的秘密》這部比較偏群戲的電影中，我則與許多來自劇場的偉大演員合作，譬如凡妮莎蕾德葛利夫與萊斯伊凡斯，那也許是我生命中最棒的一段時光。那是我第一次與人共同合作不只是在談演戲、更在談說故事的方法、談每一景要向你訴說什麼。
After disaster movies and historical movies, what movies do you want to make?
拍完災難片和歷史片後，你還想拍什麼片？
EMMERICH: I wrote a script 20 years ago and recently rewrote it extensively. It’s called Shooting Star and is a very comedic movie but also delves into a movie shoot taking place in the Californian desert in 1919, 1920 or 1921. It’s about filmmaking. That’s probably closest to my heart these days and I know I have to do one or two other movies beforehand, but I’m looking forward to doing that.
艾莫瑞奇：有個劇本我二十年前就寫了，最近又進一步重寫了。這部叫作《流星》，是部很喜劇的片，談加州沙漠裡一個拍片現場，年代在 1919, 1920 或 1921 ，是個關於電影製作的故事。這也許是近來最貼近我心的題材，而我知道我應該先拍一兩部其他電影，不過我非常期待做這部。