Re: [爆卦] 女權雜誌:亞洲女性歧視亞洲男性

作者: Adair1104 (Adair)   2018-03-21 09:12:58
女權雜誌做出回應了
FB連結:https://www.facebook.com/aprilmagazine/posts/560897077624390
FB內容:
We’ve noticed that one of our articles (https://goo.gl/ZEqFp1) is being used
by some Chinese internet users to attack the Chinese feminists.
It seems that some users are distorting the article and making false
translations to pursue their own agenda. The point of our article was to be
aware of internalised racism, it has nothing to do with condemning a gender,
let alone attacking women in general.
Facing this outrageous situation, we've decided to give Chinese feminists
more platform, more voice on our magazine.
If you know any Chinese feminist who can write for us, please let us know.
重點:
中國人超壞,竟然用我們的文章攻擊中國女權主義者
我們是要強調種族之間的內化,而不是挑起性別對立
心得:
贊成雜誌,亞洲男性被亞洲女性74
本來就是種族問題,怎麼可能挑起性別對立
※ 引述《Machinator (我的狗叫習近平)》之銘言:
: ※ [本文轉錄自 Gossiping 看板 #1Qhz1S3s ]
: 作者: zhxl (武裝肥宅) 看板: Gossiping
: 標題: [爆卦] 女權雜誌:亞洲女性歧視亞洲男性
: 時間: Mon Mar 19 22:59:37 2018
: 探討「亞洲女性仇視亞洲男性」的議題
: 此文出於專門關注亞洲女生權利的雜誌 april magazine 上
: 原文網址:https://goo.gl/9HHf73
: 原文
: I was in the eighth grade when I first encountered a self-hating Asian. The
: person in question was a 1.5th generation Korean girl and one of the few
: other Asian students in my nearly all-white Canadian high school. Being
: (heterosexual) teenaged girls, we naturally spent a lot of our time together
: discussing cute boys. I can still remember her reaction when I mentioned that
: my long-time crush was the boy who sat in front of me during my after-school
: Chinese classes.
: “Oh, so he’s an Asian guy,” she said dismissively. Seeing the confused
: look on my face, she quickly added, “It’s just that they’re always so
: nerdy, you know? And most of them are kind of ugly, too.”
: My friend wasn’t alone in holding these views. Since then, I’ve listened to
: countless Asian women sing their excuses for why they refused to date within
: their own race. Between the never-ending chorus of “It’d be like dating my
: own brother” or “I just happen to have more in common with white guys,” I
: began to understand that these excuses were simply an expression of their
: internalized racism. Rather than confront these feelings, they chose to craft
: a narrative where Asian men were too [fill in the blank with an undesirable
: characteristic of your choice], thus absolving them of personal
: responsibility for their dating decisions.
: Of course, on closer inspection, it was clear that their rationalizations
: were riddled with inconsistencies. For one thing, in order for their
: collective testimonies to be true, Asian men would have to occupy a very
: paradoxical position on the spectrum of male undesirability—vilified as
: patriarchal overlords by one woman and then mocked for being geeky losers by
: the next.
: Moreover, while these women vehemently resisted being labeled themselves,
: they couldn’t recognize their own hypocrisy in stereotyping other groups.
: Take, for example, this article written by an international student from Hong
: Kong attending university in the UK. She discusses the ethnic stereotypes she
: has encountered and ultimately reaffirms that people are just “individuals
: with variety after all.” She then ends her piece by remarking that Chinese
: men are, in fact, “smaller” than white men.
: This article ties into a larger trend of Asian women publicly vocalizing
: disdain for their Asian male counterparts. Gina Choe and Jenny An both felt
: compelled to broadcast their Asian-exclusionary dating preferences on public
: platforms. Comedian Esther Ku routinely exploits (false) stereotypes of Asian
: men during her shows. A couple months ago, she even tweeted a video thanking
: United Airlines for assaulting Dr. David Dao. I want to be clear: there’s
: nothing wrong with choosing to be in an interracial relationship. There’s
: everything wrong with having to insult the men of your own race when you do.
: Our current racial climate is inherently hostile and discourages anything
: that fosters a strong sense of self-esteem among all POC living in the West.
: Whiteness is often the unspoken prerequisite to success and respect, which
: incentivizes minorities to seek further inclusion into white society. For
: some Asian women, this involves disassociating themselves entirely from Asian
: men. These women are certainly not representative of the average Asian woman
: from any country. However, we also can’t deny that this vocal minority has
: swallowed up a disproportionate amount of room in what little space is
: granted for our voices. And there’s been minimal effort on our part to
: censure them.
: Taken in the collective, the actions of these individuals illustrate the
: broader failure of our community to facilitate open discussion on issues like
: internalized racism. As a diverse and immigrant-heavy population, the
: development of our racial consciousness remains in its fledgling state. The
: foundation of our activism, therefore, depends on our ability to solidify a
: positive Asian identity—and we can start by calling out the self-haters
: among us.
: (Written by Yuenting J. Yuenting is a third generation Chinese-Canadian
: currently attending university.)
: 粗略的意思是部分亞洲女性找了許多藉口來汙衊貶低亞洲男性
: 將沙文主義、魯蛇、甚至是種族歧視的字眼都莫須有的套在亞洲男人身上
: 將亞洲男性貶低的一無是處好讓她們喜歡白人的行為合理化
作者: deathly (隱者)   2018-03-21 09:18:00
應該是要強調"各種族內部間存在的種族歧視" 不是內化
作者: RLH (我們很近也很遠)   2018-03-21 09:18:00
這就是英文版的女人迷啊
作者: deathly (隱者)   2018-03-21 09:20:00
比如,同樣都是黃種人 富有的歧視貧窮的 或是 同種族男性歧視女性 大概是這樣其實我有個問題 文章內點出 亞洲女性歧視男性當男性歧視女性時 這些雜誌會鼓勵女性反抗 責怪但當情況反過來時 雜誌又說不應該責怪女性 ?????????我覺得這真的很有趣呢
作者: vicious666 (Seth)   2018-03-21 09:33:00
還好吧?就國外的自助餐阿
作者: yellowones (yellowones)   2018-03-21 10:38:00
請問樓上D大的解讀是從哪個段落來的?我們看的是同一篇文章嗎there’s: nothing wrong with choosing to be in an interracial relationship. There’s: everything wrong with having to insult the men of your own race when you do.Taken in the collective, the actions of these individuals illustrate the: broader failure of our community to facilitate open discussion on issues like: internalized racism.都幫忙整理好了就不要再亂解讀了
作者: deathly (隱者)   2018-03-21 12:06:00
我翻的是FB的內容THE POINT OF OUR ARTICLE 開始 原PO寫內化但實際上應該不是內化 我不是翻文章的 我是在翻FB貼文另外 解讀也很正常接下來 IT'S HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ....是在說 我們無意責怪任何一個性別, LET ALONE更別說責怪女性 所以我的解讀哪裡有問題當男性歧視女性 這些雜誌就會責怪 或是鼓勵反抗今天反過來了 就只是輕描淡寫的說一句 我們沒想責怪誰HOLY **** YOU GUYS GUST LIKE "TWO-FACED" HAHAIT HAS NOTHING TO DO 是指與此無關 阿不就是在說我們無意責怪任何性別今天轉FB 我就翻FB 我是不知道Y大去哪找來的啦打錯了 You guys just like "TWO-FACED" HAHAHA~~到底是誰解讀有問題啊?
作者: yellowones (yellowones)   2018-03-21 13:12:00
欸,樓上的,人家一開始就說了文章的意義是討論internalised racism,沒有在討論性別歧視耶,我可以理解這個議題跟性別議題一定有關,可是人家都說本意非如此了你這樣解讀你真的覺得沒問題嗎
作者: deathly (隱者)   2018-03-21 13:15:00
內部的種族歧視 然後又扯到男女性 然後說沒討論性別歧視??? 舉個例子吧 政府說我們討論的是薪資問題然後講到企業跟勞工之間狀況 薪資等 然後再回頭說這只是
作者: yellowones (yellowones)   2018-03-21 13:16:00
他是說我們無意譴責任何性別,更不用說會拿這樣的文章來攻擊女性(可能有些反女權的用了那篇文章去無差別責備女性吧),你好像根本沒看懂吧
作者: deathly (隱者)   2018-03-21 13:16:00
討論薪資問題 無關於勞工與雇主之間關係的討論 ??????
作者: Adair1104 (Adair)   2018-03-21 13:17:00
無意譴責任何性別,結果說"女"歧視"男" QQ好複雜喔
作者: yellowones (yellowones)   2018-03-21 13:18:00
他就說了文章的主旨是想討論種族歧視了,你要討論性別
作者: deathly (隱者)   2018-03-21 13:18:00
對啊 無意譴責 這是女對男的狀況 換到男對女試試看
作者: yellowones (yellowones)   2018-03-21 13:19:00
不是啦,無意譴責任何性別主要的對象應該是那些有內部歧視的女性,並不是男性哦就像你覺得性別議題跟這個文章想討論的內容脫不了關係,可是人家想要把重點放在部分亞洲女性對亞洲男性的內部歧視上,我覺得你想討論性別議題也是可以再開一篇文啦
作者: deathly (隱者)   2018-03-21 13:20:00
對啊 他們不譴責女性啊 因為女性對男性有歧視 但不譴責今天我問你啊 如果狀況反過來呢?今天如果是男性歧視女性 他們會說我們不譴責男性嗎?我想凸顯的就是你們這些雙面人 話都給你們說我哪裡解讀有誤 我在上面翻譯就寫了 無疑譴責任何性別何況攻擊女性 廢話,今天是發現女性歧視男性 才這樣說你對換看看 變成男性歧視女性 這個雜誌會說這麼好聽難道會說 我們無意譴責任何性別 更何況攻擊男性?
作者: yellowones (yellowones)   2018-03-21 13:24:00
哦那這樣我懂了,我同意啊我也覺得應該譴責這些會內部歧視的女性,只是並不是譴責一個特定性別,而是會內部歧視的這個女性群體吧,對嗎
作者: deathly (隱者)   2018-03-21 13:25:00
你舉義舉例哪一個女權雜誌會這麼說 我洗眼恭看
作者: yellowones (yellowones)   2018-03-21 13:26:00
我不會想為沒有看到的文章或事件預設立場,所以我不覺得去假設情況反過來會怎樣,如果是我那標準當然要統一囉,只是其他人怎麼想我怎麼控制啊XD
作者: deathly (隱者)   2018-03-21 13:26:00
簡單來說 你認為應該譴責的就是部分人這樣也沒錯 畢竟不能因為部分人 就譴責全部人
作者: yellowones (yellowones)   2018-03-21 13:27:00
我沒有在看女權雜誌耶,我自認為是女權主義者可是不代表所有自稱女權主義者的言論都應該同意吧
作者: deathly (隱者)   2018-03-21 13:28:00
但這篇雜誌還是有偏頗的地方 今天如果狀況反過來
作者: jimabc (Je t'aime)   2018-03-21 13:28:00
英文版女人迷+1 仇男大本營
作者: deathly (隱者)   2018-03-21 13:29:00
我質疑他是否會寫上我們不責怪任何性別 更遑論攻擊
作者: yellowones (yellowones)   2018-03-21 13:29:00
對啊我就是這個意思,文章也是寫了不要譴責特定性別,倒是要不要譴責特定群體他就沒說了,所以我是不會去假設他們會不會譴責啦看起來我們有共識了是嗎XD
作者: deathly (隱者)   2018-03-21 13:30:00
如果這個雜誌對於男性歧視女性的態度 與女性歧視男性的態度是一致的 那我沒話說問題就是現在很多不是如此單純就"譴責有問題的群體" 而非"譴責全體" 我同意
作者: tsming (斷水流大師兄)   2018-03-21 14:49:00
自助餐式回應,反正女森就是不能罵XDDD
作者: ccnoire (熱愛生活 >///<)   2018-03-21 20:52:00
英文待加強

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