[討論] Don’t vote PED users in Hall

作者: Zamned (Как дела?)   2013-01-15 10:15:20
http://tinyw.in/HaUh
懶人包:
1.Andre Dawson:咱有夠衰,跟一堆吃藥的競爭名人堂資格。當我在1996年退休時,人們
說我將會進入名人堂,生涯21個大聯盟球季繳出400轟、300盜,在當時,這樣的數字告
訴我會進名人堂,除了Dave Kingman外,其他達成400轟的人都進入名人堂。但是咧...
我花了8年才擠進名人堂。
2.當Andre Dawson退休時,他的生涯數據名列前茅,全壘打數在大聯盟127年歷史下排
行22名,他的多項數據皆排進20幾名。結果接下來短短16年,就有16位選手抄超車。
他的排名一路溜滑梯,是他太弱,還是藥藥太強?
3.Andre Dawson:俺真的怒了!搞到最後,一次投票,兩個聯盟加起來竟然有20-30位人
選在競爭名人堂。我去年才和Frank Robinson談到這檔事,他也氣炸啦!不是我們想教
訓別人,實在是因為太不像樣囉!
4.Andre Dawson:如果這些藥蟲真的被那些有投票權的記者放進來?這我無法想像,要我
張開雙臂歡迎這些吃藥的兄弟進來古伯鎮?WTH....今年那些傑出的蟲蟲得到不少票,那
些投票者或許將給我一課難題也說不定....
When Andre Dawson retired, his place in baseball history was secure.
He was generally considered a first-ballot Hall of Famer by writers active in
the game, but by the time his name came up for election five years later, his
sparkling career had been forgotten.
So what happened between September 1996 and December 2001 that caused him to
get only 45 percent of the vote when it was announced in January 2002?
"Performance-enhancing drugs is what happened," Dawson said from his home in
Miami. "All I heard near the end of my career is that I was a Hall of Famer,
but when it was my chance on the ballot it seems like I was not considered
worthy anymore."
When Dawson retired after the 1996 season, he was 23rd on the all-time home
run list with 438, a number at the time considered an absolute lock for the
Hall of Fame, especially considering his all-around game that included eight
Gold Gloves and 300-plus stolen bases.
Every player ahead of him on the home run list — except for Dave Kingman —
was in the Hall of Fame, or would be in short order.
"For many years, 400 home runs was the barrier for the Hall of Fame," Dawson
said. "You crossed that line and you had a very good chance to get in."
What happened the next 16 years is shocking historically. It took 127 years
of baseball for 22 men to hit more than 438 home runs, but in the last 16
years, 16 men have passed Dawson on the home run list, increasing the number
of players ahead of him by 70 percent.
The time elapsed in baseball history was 11 percent.
In extra-base hits, Dawson dropped from 18th (1,039) to 26th, increasing the
number of players ahead of him by 44 percent.
In total bases, he fell from 21st (4,787) to 27th, increasing the number of
players ahead of him by 29 percent.
In RBI, he dropped from 24th (1,591) to 36th, increasing the number of
players ahead of him by 50 percent.
In hits, Dawson fell from 39th (2,774) to 50th, increasing the number of
players ahead of him by 28 percent.
These are enormous percentage leaps in a fraction of the time it took for
those lists to be formed.
"The thing is, I played a long time in the majors (21 years), and a couple
more in the minors, and I didn't play with that many Hall of Fame-caliber
ballplayers," Dawson said. "I didn't play against more than a few Hall of
Famers.
"You don't just suddenly have 20 or 30 Hall of Famers in both leagues at one
time, but that's what the numbers said. That's what all the commentators said.
"You knew something was wrong when numbers were getting obliterated in a
short period. That many great players don't just show up like that. It just
doesn't happen. You don't see 40 Hall of Famers show up out of nowhere in
five years."
Dawson went from being considered among the truly elite sluggers in baseball
history in 1996, a tremendous all-around player often compared to his heroes,
Mickey Mantle and Willie Mays, to just another player in 2001.
"I don't let bitterness and anger weigh me down, but I won't pretend it
doesn't offend me," Dawson said. "I was talking to Frank Robinson about it
last year, and he's really angry about what's been done to the history of the
game.
"The guys who took steroids disrespected the game, and disrespected the
history. Our history relies so much on the numbers, and the numbers have been
destroyed."
So you can't envision yourself in Cooperstown, sharing the stage with known
cheaters?
"I can't see it," Dawson said. "I can't imagine them holding their head high
with pride, thinking they accomplished something great. No, I wouldn't want
to be up there with them. I don't think it's right for the game."
But there are many writers today who are voting for the steroids players, and
trying to encourage their brethren to do the same, saying you can't ignore
this time period in the game.
Some are voting for them all because they simply don't know what else to do.
"That's a cop-out," Dawson said. "It's the writers' job to decide who belongs
in the Hall of Fame, but they don't want to punish guys who cheated? The
all-time hits leader (Pete Rose) isn't in the Hall, and I know it's not the
writers' call on that, but Pete has been punished.
"You telling me you don't have the heart to punish those guys?"
Dawson says he isn't bitter, but he's got every right to be. His career
numbers were swallowed up by the steroid era, and it took him nine years of
agony to finally take his rightful place in Cooperstown among the greatest
who have ever played the game.
Instead of first ballot, he garnered only 45 percent of the vote in his first
year, and it was another eight elections before he was granted entrance to
Cooperstown.
"The consequences were big for me, and a lot of guys were forgotten," Dawson
said. "Now, the guys who did (PEDs) have to face the consequences.
"They made millions and millions and millions of dollars doing that, and they
put up huge numbers, numbers nobody has ever seen before. What they did was
wrong and it was unfair to the other players in the game. They weren't on a
level playing field, and they shortened other players' careers and took money
out of other players' pockets.
"They knew what they were doing. If they weren't cheating, why did so many
guys try to hide it and lie about it? If it was all so great for baseball,
why don't they all just tell the truth about it?"
Dawson's already in the Hall of Fame, so he says his anger isn't about what
happened to him. His concern is for the numbers that are so crucial to the
romance that surrounds baseball, which has had its heart broken by steroids.
"I'm mad about what they did to the game. I think of Hank (Aaron) and Willie
and Mickey, it makes me really angry," Dawson said. "We worked really, really
hard to get to a certain level. They did it with drugs.
"I love the game, and I hate to see the stain on our game. It makes me sad,
but I don't think we can pretend it didn't happen by voting all those guys
in. That would be the ultimate stain."
作者: JacqueJones (她依然很美)   2013-01-15 10:24:00
作者: yankeefat (本人內建試製51cm連裝砲)   2013-01-15 11:28:00
BB爺不吃藥還是比他猛
作者: yankeefat (本人內建試製51cm連裝砲)   2013-01-15 11:35:00
另外這種事情去抱怨記者比較實在
作者: DreamWolfX (lazy bone)   2013-01-15 11:35:00
Hank Aaron也是藥蟲啊,科科
作者: MarcLin (soybean)   2013-01-15 12:38:00
可憐的老頭
作者: Levi (Massachusetts)   2013-01-15 12:39:00
總之就是老鳥拉正菜鳥,但是士官長打藥就當成不知道囉。
作者: Sechslee (キタ━━(゚∀゚)━━!!)   2013-01-15 13:10:00
老鳥就沒有吃藥嗎 呵呵
作者: greenpeace21 (夢見街)   2013-01-15 13:25:00
BB不吃藥搞不好2000年以前就廢光準備退休了
作者: greenpeace21 (夢見街)   2013-01-15 13:26:00
BB不吃藥的前提下,水準就差不多和dawson一樣
作者: WadeMiley ( )   2013-01-15 13:27:00
如果他沒吃那他就嗆的很合理啊 不然他扎實的成績看起來
作者: greenpeace21 (夢見街)   2013-01-15 13:27:00
最糟的是BB吃藥還敢大聲...只能說無藥可救
作者: abc12812   2013-01-15 13:28:00
BB在06~07藥檢時代40歲以後的OPS+是162
作者: abc12812   2013-01-15 13:29:00
Andre Dawson生涯最好的一年 OPS+是157
作者: greenpeace21 (夢見街)   2013-01-15 13:33:00
沒有藥效撐住他的身體和訓練量,BB老早廢了...
作者: borriss (松)   2013-01-15 13:37:00
真要提Dale Murphy..多兩年拼400轟 結果398 然後陪榜15年
作者: supetaco (沒有調味料的章魚燒)   2013-01-15 13:54:00
吃藥是在吃補喔 沒吃身體會廢 所以應該全民一起吃?
作者: yankeefat (本人內建試製51cm連裝砲)   2013-01-15 14:14:00
禁藥吃多是會搞壞身體 而不是健身好嗎
作者: HercuLiz (我要閃人啦)   2013-01-15 14:53:00
BB吃的藥是仙豆嗎
作者: WadeMiley ( )   2013-01-15 15:23:00
停止用藥後會像從來沒吃過藥一樣?
作者: bikwang (死胖子)   2013-01-15 15:46:00
投手對球加工也是作弊,不但名人堂還總冠軍賽貴賓咧
作者: bikwang (死胖子)   2013-01-15 15:51:00
Don’t vote ballmachining pitcher in Hall
作者: douglas56 (一針見血)   2013-01-15 16:10:00
所以禁藥也可以讓人選球變好? 守備判斷準? 禁藥也太神了
作者: GreenDay   2013-01-15 17:44:00
揮棒速度快,對選球應該有些幫助吧!?
作者: MarcLin (soybean)   2013-01-15 18:34:00
有人腦袋和Dawson差不多,真可憐
作者: langeo (langeo)   2013-01-15 18:37:00
最好bb沒吃會跟dawson差不多 年輕時就甩他好幾條街了只是吃了把他們兩個差距拉到銀河系
作者: Levi (Massachusetts)   2013-01-15 18:48:00
鍵盤運動科學專家是一個全球性的現象,從BBWAA到PTT皆然。
作者: vg175 (非典型廢言)   2013-01-15 19:46:00
選球不見得需要變好 投手自己會閃你
作者: cchmaddux (孤鷹)   2013-01-15 21:25:00
Bonds有沒有吃藥 看看他異常的生涯曲線就知道了 2000~04
作者: cchmaddux (孤鷹)   2013-01-15 21:26:00
(36~40歲)這段誇張的peak 比他之前在29歲的生涯年(46HR
作者: cchmaddux (孤鷹)   2013-01-15 21:27:00
123RBIs雙冠王)還高出許多 要護航Bonds也要有個限度(雖
作者: cchmaddux (孤鷹)   2013-01-15 21:28:00
然我也認同 如果不吃藥 Bonds也會是個生涯500轟500盜 必
作者: cchmaddux (孤鷹)   2013-01-15 21:29:00
進名人堂的偉大球員)
作者: borriss (松)   2013-01-15 21:33:00
邦姬只是突然開竅 把球打遠一點點就可以慢慢跑(誤
作者: a12q35745 (我要錢)   2013-01-15 22:04:00
推Levi大大
作者: onime0704 (おにめ)   2013-01-15 22:05:00
綠和平是吃過?你又知道沒藥吃撐不住?
作者: TaiwanNeko (台灣小小貓)   2013-01-15 22:12:00
LUGO要是吃藥早就50-50了
作者: Sparksfly (火光飛舞)   2013-01-15 22:26:00
XDDDDDDD
作者: abc12812   2013-01-15 22:42:00
Hank Aaron生涯最好的五個打擊球季 有三個是在35歲以後
作者: abc12812   2013-01-15 22:53:00
Randy Johnson 35~40歲大進化 難道也是藥的功勞?
作者: cchmaddux (孤鷹)   2013-01-15 23:28:00
Randy Johnson年輕時是因為空有球速 但控球不佳 這個問
作者: cchmaddux (孤鷹)   2013-01-15 23:29:00
題改善之後 從1993年開始(扣除受傷)成績就已經很殺 並不
作者: cchmaddux (孤鷹)   2013-01-15 23:30:00
是35~40歲才大進化的 三振數又再提升一個層次 恐怕是換
作者: cchmaddux (孤鷹)   2013-01-15 23:31:00
到國聯(沒有DH)的關係 Hank Aaron是一直很平穩 並不像Bonds 在 SLG和OPS 突然爆增 根本變成不一樣的兩個人
作者: langeo (langeo)   2013-01-15 23:41:00
怎麼沒人說漢克阿倫的成績是靠吸安得來的
作者: abc12812   2013-01-15 23:53:00
那怎麼不說bonds是愈老打擊技巧愈好 才能幹那麼多轟?
作者: OoyaoO (你今天崩潰了嗎 囧)   2013-01-16 00:22:00
這已經是一個兩派都有成見無法說服彼此的問題了
作者: kusami (>.^)   2013-01-16 15:59:00
這問題應該需要科學能把禁藥對人體影響解釋後才有個共識
作者: geneaven (geneaven)   2013-01-16 18:49:00
所以Nolan Ryan42歲後才生涯whip最低,也是吃藥囉?

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